Denialism

Alternative medicne and the straight line to AIDS denialism

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by

MarkH
in

In order to bring you your daily dose of science, the Great Seed Overlords must pay the bills. Like any other medium, one of the ways this is done is by selling ad space. Internet ad engines generally have some sort of algorithm that choses ads based on the page content, thereby targeting readers’ interests. If you doubt the sophistication of these methods, check your amazon.com suggestions, or your google search page.

For a skeptical blogger, this can make for some interesting ads. One of mine is for a book called Water: For Health, For Healing, For Life, by F. Batmanghelidj, M.D. I’ve never heard of this guy, so I gave him a click (although I probably should have just googled it to avoid giving him my business—as usual, I’m not providing links to the woo-meister so you’ll just have to google it).

What I found is an example of how the rejection of science and adoption of woo can lead inexorably toward some pretty nasty denialism.

The book advertised offers these promises:

Based on more than twenty years of clinical and scientific research into the role of water in the body, a pioneering physician and the acclaimed author of Your Body’s Many Cries for Water shows how water – yes, water! – can relieve a stunning range of medical conditions. Simply adjusting your fluid and salt intakes can help you treat and prevent dozens of diseases, avoid costly prescription drugs, and enjoy vibrant new health. Discover:

# The different signals of thirst and chronic dehydration in you body
# How much water and salt you need each day to stay healthy
# Why other beverages, including tea, coffee, and sodas, cannot be substituted for water
# How to naturally lessen, even eliminate, symptoms of asthma and allergies
# How to help prevent life-threatening conditions such as heart failure, stroke, Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, and cancer
# How hypertension may be treated naturally, without diuretics or medication
# Why water is the key to losing weight without dieting
# How to hydrate your skin to combat premature aging

This book will save you from medical ignorance and killer chemicals that are used in health problems caused by chronic unintentional dehydration.

So, the usual woo—lots of promises based on nothing. I’d let it go at that, but I was curious about this Batmanghelidj guy. The first hit I got on google was—surprise!—his website full of wacky pseudoscience. First is the hilarious link to a 20 year old NYT article about his supposed water cure.

Then comes the denialist literature. Provided “free, as a public service” a bunch of AIDS denialist screeds. Thrown in for good measure was some cholesterol-denialism. His AIDS paper is actually humorous, or would be if it weren’t for, you know, AIDS. He talks quite a bit about semen and “rectal manipulation”. This is from a guy who, unfortunately, spent a lot of time in a Persian prison.

The point here is that once you abandon science you are open to anything. This may sound like a slippery slope fallacy, but it’s not. Abandoning scientific thought allows you to believe any idea a credulous mind can invent. Sometimes it’s sad, sometimes it’s funny, but more often than not it’s dangerous.

Comments

  1. Orac

    I’ve often said that credulity towards one form of pseudoscience often leads to credulity towards many forms of pseudoscience. I’ve seen it myself. For example, Dr. Lorraine Day, who claims to be able to cure breast cancer with prayer and a “Barley Green” concoction, is also a Holocaust denier and New World Order-type conspiracy theorist. “Alternative medicine” often goes hand-in-hand with HIV/AIDS denialism, antivaccinationism, and all manners of conspiracy theories.

    That’s been one reason I’ve been so hostile to the encroachment of woo into academic medicine in the form of teaching “CAM” in medical schools. Oh, medical schools claim to teach it skeptically and in a science- and evidence-based manner, but they don’t really, given that most of the faculty who teach such topics are practitioners of the woo they teach. My concern is that if medical students are taught to accept woo as valid medicine they’ll be less likely to be able to identify bogus claims, whether those claims come from quacks or big pharma.

    Reply
  2. DuWayne

    I have to appreciate the irony, the ad directly under the one for the aforementioned book, is for a hairball remedy.

    I’ve often said that credulity towards one form of pseudoscience often leads to credulity towards many forms of pseudoscience.

    You aren’t kidding. When I posted about Tara Smith and Steven Novella’s great article on HIV/AIDS denialism, I got emails about the craziest shit. I actually still get emails from one of the respondents, at least once a week. Many of them seemed like stock replies to postings the author might not like. My favorite was from a gent who went on at great length about the space lasers that took out the WTCs. At the very end there was a sentence that mentioned how deluded I am about the HIV conspiracy.

    “Alternative medicine” often goes hand-in-hand with HIV/AIDS denialism, antivaccinationism, and all manners of conspiracy theories.

    Here in homeschool land, we try to get on with other homeschooling families. There are really three distinct homeschool communities in Portland, but we get a bit of crossover between them. One of course, is the religious nuts, who want to protect their children from evilution and Teh Gay agenda. Then you have the alties, many of whom are non-religious. Finally, you have everyone else, which is really two groups that have a lot of interaction. We are in the subgroup that homeschools because of learning/behavioral difficulties, the other group is made up of folks who just find that their child can get more individual and higher quality education at home and in small groups.

    There is a fair amount of bad blood between the community that we are a part of and the alties. Most of the kids that we interact with, are either ASD or have ADHD/ADD, with a smattering of other developmental issues. Most of us parents, are very strong supporters of neurodiversity and take rather strong exception to the alties, most of whom are part of the anti-vax cult.

    The problem arose, when we went to a workshop through the online public school that we use as a base curriculum. My son met a boy that he just became fast friends with. Unfortunately, his parents are alty cultists. We went to their home for dinner one evening, to get to know the parents of our son’s new friend. Being a rather big bibliophile, I of course zoned in on the book shelves (my son does the same damn thing). Among other rather “interesting” reading material, was Inventing the AIDS Virus, by Duesberg.

    Now I am willing to set a lot aside, believing that unless his safety is in jeopardy, my son should have the friends he wants to have. So much as it pained me, I relegated myself to accepting his new friend and said friends family. Unfortunately, the dad was not so keen. Oddly, he never said a word about my couple of posts about HIV/AIDS denialism, he found after googling me. But he went apeshit over my discussion of neurodiversity and my own ADHD. He promptly canceled our plans to have his son over to play and said that while my son is welcome any time in his home, he would not allow his child in ours.

    Reply
  3. Denice Walter

    Reading what Pal and Orac wrote , I wonder what leads to the acceptance and proliferation of woo-ful ideas in otherwise intelligent people? Really.What makes a person susceptible to woo? Is it just a lack of critical thinking?A lack of science education? Is it perhaps some sort of need to see the world as a more harmonious,understandable,predictable place, with all of the loose ends neatly interwoven?

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  4. Michael

    Surely you get some editorial control over the ads? If not, Proximic isn’t very good. Or is it the time consuming nature of keeping a close eye on them?

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  5. PalMD

    I don’t know much about the ad policy, and I don’t really care. At this point, it’s a great repository of untapped woo for me.

    I think most folks come for the content anyway (at least I like to think so)

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  6. Chris Noble

    Reading what Pal and Orac wrote , I wonder what leads to the acceptance and proliferation of woo-ful ideas in otherwise intelligent people? Really.What makes a person susceptible to woo? Is it just a lack of critical thinking?A lack of science education? Is it perhaps some sort of need to see the world as a more harmonious,understandable,predictable place, with all of the loose ends neatly interwoven?

    Lynn Margulis has come out as both an HIV Denier and a 911 troother. I don’t think anybody is claiming that she lacks either a science education or intelligence.

    The key issue is more that once you have swallowed the idea that the “orthodoxy” are wrong about one issue and you know better then it is much easy to carry this through to another issue. After you have jumped this initial hurdle you start seeing yourself as somebody who is smarter than the majority or, probably more commonly, as somebody who has special knowledge that the majority doesn’t have.

    People like Linus Pauling, Fred Hoyle and Lynn Margulis all made significant contributions to science and were all in the position of being right when the “orthodoxy” were wrong. This seems to have actually been a contributing factor to their later association with woo.

    I don’t mean to imply that most wooers are intelligent and well educated. They aren’t. Education and intelligence don’t make you immmune from woo.

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  7. DuWayne

    Denice –

    I am a really smart guy (take it from me;). I am very well read, though I am only making up for my formal educational shortcomings now, at thirty two. I am extremely good at the work that I do and fairly well respected by my peers.

    I am also what I like to describe as pathologically credulous. I am very prone to buying into woo, for a number of reasons, not the least being a fairly inherent distaste for authority. I also have a strong distrust for politicians. Thankfully, I am aware of this and do my best to compensate, many others like me do not.

    To explain my suspicions about why I am this way, would take way too much time on my part and space on this blog. I may well write about it and eventually post it to my own blog, but I doubt it will happen anytime soon, as I have a pretty big backlog of things I need to write about. In part though, I would consider it to be something very much akin to any other mental disorder. Really, not likely much different than that which makes people Believe so strongly in any religion.

    Reply
  8. Chris Noble

    I am also what I like to describe as pathologically credulous. I am very prone to buying into woo, for a number of reasons, not the least being a fairly inherent distaste for authority.

    Distrust of authority is a unifying feature of both Denialism and conspiracy theories.

    Even when they appear to be in direct opposition they are just different aspects of the same phenomena.

    If you want some amusement listen to the first 20 minutes of this “debate” between an HIV Denier and a HIV conspiracy theorist.

    HIV Denier vs HIV Conspiracy nut

    One of them thinks that HIV doesn’t exist. The other thinks that HIV was dleiberately created to wipe out gays and blacks. They both deny evidence that contradicts their theories and they both rely on a massive conspiracy. The unifying feature is a pathological distrust of authority.

    I also have a strong distrust for politicians. Thankfully, I am aware of this and do my best to compensate, many others like me do not.

    Skepticism is healthy. However, taken to extremes it can become pathological.

    Reply
  9. Joe

    I had not even noticed those ads. I saw a copy of that book a few years ago. There is an appendix that reprints letters the guy wrote to the AMA, and their polite replies.

    On the Science-Based Medicine blog the ads usually lead to quackery. http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/ I find it amusing that the quacks are supporting their enemies.

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  10. Bill

    DuWayne, I find it strange that you would describe yourself as “pathologically credulous” and then list the same reasons that make me incredulous. I tend to question everything. But, why would you distrust a doctor, but trust some whacko on the internet that claims to know something that nobody else knows? There are very few people or sources that I take at face value. In another thread on this blog, I touched on the idea, but I would argue that there is no such thing as “medical knowledge.” There is only medical belief. That belief may be justified, based on current evidence, but it is very hard to prove a fact. It can only be said that, based on current evidence, something has not been disproved and is likely true.

    With that said, I think I have a pretty good nose for bullshit. Some things (like denying that HIV exists or that it was created by the government to eliminate a certain demographic, for example) smell of bullshit so strongly that it doesn’t require much investigation. If a theory is based on some vast conspiracy, it is likely wrong (Just because you are paranoid, that doesn’t mean that people are not out to get you, but what are the odds?)

    I am certain that most of what we “know” in medicine is, in fact, correct. I am also certain that a small percentage of what we “know” is wrong. Figuring out the difference is what keeps things interesting.

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  11. Ian B Gibson

    It sounds like DuWayne may also have a need to take a firm position on a subject. If that’s the case, then once he’s convinced himself that those in authority are wrong/lying he then has to find some superficially plausible alternative to believe. Many people seem to be deeply uncomfortable with reserving judgement.

    Orac – since it is the case that certain medical schools are going to teach CAM anyway, wouldn’t it be better for people like you to teach it in a sceptical way, rather than letting its practitioners have a free rein?

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  12. skeptico

    Small point, but by clicking the guy’s link you gave business to Google (and to the Great Seed Overlords), not the altie guy. You actually cost the altie guy money.

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  13. Lenora

    Really, is that how it works? The advertisers pay by the click?

    Reply
  14. DuWayne

    Chris –

    Believe me, I am aware. I have bought into all manner of woo in my life. I think the breaking point for me, was vaccines. When we had our first child, it was quite the discussion. It was only through the importance that my childhood family doctor put on it, that I spent the time actually reading about the studies and looking at all the evidence. I think that was the point that I realized I had a serious problem and needed to educate myself far more about a lot of things. My doctor did a very effective job of expressing the gravity and importance of vaccines, sending also a lot of information about childhood diseases that are now pretty preventable.

    I think it’s definitely pathological. I have a strong desire to trust the people around me, a need to. Hanging out with the wrong people, combined with an inherent distrust of authority, combined with equating scientific consensus with said authority – it’s easy to get there from here. Especially given my background in a Christian fundamentalist, borderline cult. Which is not to say that woomeisters all have religious backgrounds, just that it helps. Indeed, ones who are completely non-religious can be the worse, because they believe themselves to be paragons of rationality.

    Bill –

    Chris had it dead on, it’s not the skepticism, it’s a matter of degree.

    But, why would you distrust a doctor, but trust some whacko on the internet that claims to know something that nobody else knows?

    It’s not so much that I didn’t trust my doctor, I just didn’t trust “the establishment” not to quash legitimate, medicinal plants that work far better than western medicine. And I didn’t trust quacks online, I trusted quacks who were my friends. The big one that got me going for a long while, was essiac. Because of course it was a reliable “cure” for cancer. I even had the testimonial of a friend who beat breast cancer – at least she had found lumps on her breast that disappeared after taking essiac. Coincidence? She thought not…

    I also can be a sucker for positions that “sound” reasonable. I don’t know if you have actually listened to some of the master woomeisters, but they can be remarkably persuasive. I recently interviewed several people who are part of a local alty medicine group, that is heavy into HIV/AIDS denialism. To put it bluntly, I have no tolerance for this brand of bullshit. I have lost an uncle and five friends now, to AIDS. Most of the folks in this group are your standard conspiracy theorists, but two of them are remarkably persuasive. As much as I loathe this brand of woo, I found myself wanting to believe them, because they are that good. Indeed, were it not for my extreme distaste for their bull, I would have been hard pressed to argue with them.

    Ian –

    Partly right. The only quibble would be about fears of reserving judgment. It’s not that I can’t reserve judgment, it’s more that I have a very hard time changing my mind once I have made a judgment. Not that I can’t, it’s just that it takes a very conscious force of will.

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  15. Blake Stacey

    I get all sorts of pseudoscience and woo advertised in my sidebar. I also get money when people click on the aforesaid woo — just pointing out the irony. . . .

    Reply
  16. fritz

    Batman is a respected superhero and criminologist. If he says to drink lots of water, who am I to argue with him?

    Reply
  17. tiffany and co

    I’ve often said that credulity towards one form of pseudoscience often leads to credulity towards many forms of pseudoscience. I’ve seen it myself. For example, Dr. Lorraine Day, who claims to be able to cure breast cancer with prayer and a “Barley Green” concoction, is also a Holocaust denier and New World Order-type conspiracy theorist. “Alternative medicine” often goes hand-in-hand with HIV/AIDS denialism, antivaccinationism, and all manners of conspiracy theories.

    Reply

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