Denialism

Atheists Advertise!

—

by

Chris
in

I never thought I’d see this. But here it is in all its glory. When I used to live in Georgia and drive past huge billboards that read “I heard that! — God,” or “You’re Welcome –God,” I imagined the day when atheist billboards would appear. I always wanted to buy a billboard that simply read, “God is Dead.” in part, to see whether Clear Channel would put it up, and in part, to hear the standard rejoinder said in Georgia–“Nietzsche is dead!” How profound!

Today’s Journal covers atheists’ efforts in reaching out, and concludes with this astute observation:

Still, leading activists say nonbelievers tend to be just as wary of organized atheism as they are of organized religion — making it tough to pull together a cohesive movement.

“A pastor can say to his flock, ‘All rise,’ and everyone rises. But try that in an atheist meeting,” said Marvin Straus, co-founder of an atheist group in Boulder, Colo. “A third of the people will rise. A third will tell you to go to hell. And a third will start arguing….That’s why it’s hard to say where we’re going as a movement.”

Comments

  1. Adrienne

    Hey, great post, but fix the misspelling in the headline, please!

    Reply
  2. Chris H.

    Sorry about that.

    Reply
  3. Flying Embers

    God is not dead. It’s Alzheimer’s.

    Reply
  4. minusRusty

    “A pastor can say to his flock, ‘All rise,’ and everyone rises. But try that in an atheist meeting,” said Marvin Straus, co-founder of an atheist group in Boulder, Colo. “A third of the people will rise. A third will tell you to go to hell. And a third will start arguing….That’s why it’s hard to say where we’re going as a movement.”

    And that’s just before the 4th third shakes their head in either bewilderment (“Why can’t we all just get along?!?”) or disgust (“Here we go with the bickering again!!”) while the first three thirds schism into five new groups…

    SciFi Fan Clubs ain’t got nuthin’ on us godless scalawags!

    Reply
  5. Sigmund

    Any comments on Matthew Nisbets latest post about denialism?

    Reply
  6. Trin Tragula

    My comment is: Matthew Who?

    Reply
  7. Calli Arcale

    minusRusty — it just goes to show that human beings have an intrinsic tendency to factionalize, because of course that’s a perfect mirror to what happens in religious groups too. My church has suffered a lot of attrition to louder, flashier churches lately. You’d think that by now only like-minded folks would be left, but a single visit to a congregational meeting will usually prove you wrong.

    About the “God Is Dead” thing, my brother had a t-shirt made with that on the front, and “Nietzsche is dead” on the back. That’s his sense of humor. 😉

    Personally, I find all religious billboards annoying. I would find a “God Is Dead” billboard annoying for precisely the same reasons that I find the obnoxious Christian ones annoying. It just seems rude. And if you don’t like the billboards, remember this: while answering in kind can be briefly satisfying, the old Biblical adage of “an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth” will leave us all blind and toothless.

    All that said, I think I do like the “Beware of Dogma” sign, because I think it has important advice for all of us — atheists and theists alike. And I am an ardent believer in freedom of religion. I don’t think you can really have freedom *from* religion without seriously compromising the principles of free speech and even skepticism itself. The free and open exchange of ideas means that we have to be prepared to hear ideas we don’t agree with. I think that’s okay; it makes us stronger to learn how to reexamine and defend our views.

    Reply
  8. Rogue Epidemiologist

    No that you would want to make such a fashion statement, Chris H, but if you go to Bear Basics/T-shirt Orgy on Telegraph, you can buy your very own “Nietzsche is Dead” shirt. And there is a group called Students for a Non-Religious Ethos (i.e., SANE) on campus. I had a lot of SANE friends.

    With that said, I think the billboards are tacky, and both sides should be kicked in the balls for advertising that way. It’s just obnoxious.

    Reply
  9. minusRusty

    minusRusty — it just goes to show that human beings have an intrinsic tendency to factionalize, because of course that’s a perfect mirror to what happens in religious groups too.

    What? What!?! Atheists are human, too???

    Too funny! 🙂

    Reply
  10. The Chemist

    Benign Billboardism=Benign Bumperstickerism= Benign Pamphletism…

    I could go on and on. Save money. People already break too hard on the highways.

    Reply
  11. llewelly

    And that’s just before the 4th third …

    Four thirds? Obviously a whole lot of people who aren’t on the rolls have snuck into the movement … Fellow travelers and Trotskyites probably – maybe a few Mensheviks.

    Reply
  12. llewelly

    What? What!?! Atheists are human, too???

    Nope. I’ve been assured, many, many times, by honest, forthright, and wise individuals that atheists are not human.

    Now – I don’t claim to know the whole story – I haven’t figured out whether we’re grays, or lizard people, or Cthulhu spawn – but we’re definitely not human.

    Reply
  13. Shawn

    The billboard idea is fun and harmless and certainly a morale booster. I’d chip in for such an effort in my area.

    But having said that and speaking as an atheist, I really can’t stand to be around the types that fancy themselves as atheist activists. Most of them know nothing about effective activism and tend to be quite the strident social retards.

    Dawkins is great, Sam Harris is great and they are not the kind of people I’m talking about, but the goofballs who post in the forums on richarddawkins.net are exactly the kind of people I’m talking about.

    There is a thin line between being an independent thinker who goes their own way and being a self-absorbed asshole for whom everything is about you. A real movement needs mutual trust, and the ability to engage in cohesive group action. Above all it needs maturity, something often sorely lacking among people who fancy themselves as atheist activists.

    A simple example of why the “atheist movement” will be a joke until it stops glorifying it’s shortcomings: earlier this year Sam Harris sent out a call for donations to raise funds for Ayaan Hirsi Ali’s in light of the Dutch government’s decision to withdraw funding for her protection if she chose to remain in the US. The general response on richarddaawkins.net was pathetic, but predictable. Responding to a request like this from a respected member of the community is a really basic test of whether atheists constitute a serious movement.

    If people aren’t willing to give someone like Sam Harris the benefit of the doubt that he won’t take your donations and fly to Tahiti with them, then you’re simply not a serious movement.

    Reply
  14. melior

    “I’m just pretend –God.”

    Reply
  15. elisabeth

    I am an atheist who is not a joiner of any kind (I only register democrat so I can go to the caucus here in Iowa…) and it seems particularly weird to me to think about joining an atheist organization; it would be like joining an organization to support gravity or sunlight. No point to it. All atheist organizations seem to me to give additional support to religious belief, it is too much a reactive response. Religion should be dealt with the way that any other unfounded belief is, and that’s not by setting up an equally elaborate organizational structure. Instead, one shoul deal with specific situations (creation science, religious-based attacks on abortion rights) not the superstructure. I think if more people would just ignore religious belief as much as possible, there would be a natural slide away from it — which I think is already happening (why else would there be the fear of “happy holidays” replacing “Merry Christmas”). How many US citizens really have any theological grounding? I was doing some research in Utah and my husband went on one of the Mormon history tours. He said it was hard not to laugh when he saw how many of guest book sign-ins said “protestant” under religion — those are people who don’t really have/believe in a religion, they just think you’re supposed to…

    Reply
  16. Chuck

    “Marvin Straus, co-founder of an atheist group in Boulder, Colo. “A third of the people will rise. A third will tell you to go to hell. And a third will start arguing….That’s why it’s hard to say where we’re going as a movement.”

    A third of the people in Mr.s Straus’ example are not atheist. There is no hell if you are truly are an atheist. Only non-atheist would threaten someone to go to hell.

    Reply
  17. BobbyV

    To those that have attended a Unitarian Universalist Church, this fractious behavior is quite common during our worship services. Experiencing a worship service unfettered by rigid dogma is exhilarating and counterproductive to the establishment of a group ethos.

    Reply
  18. James Fox

    Being an atheist, IMHO, is hardly a reason to join any kind of group. If one wholly and strongly objects to certain aspects of church and government interconnectedness or objects to the positions a religious group wants to be made government policy or law that may be a reason for organization. Having come to the rational conclusion that there are no supernatural beings is hardly a reason for like minded folk to form organizations.

    Reply
  19. minusRusty

    A third of the people in Mr.s Straus’ example are not atheist. There is no hell if you are truly are an atheist. Only non-atheist would threaten someone to go to hell.

    I’m sure the actual quote would be unpublishable, Chuck.

    Of course, there are also those who don’t understand idioms, as well as those who would phrase it thusly just for the irony.

    We’re an ornery sort, don’cha know. 🙂

    -Rusty

    Reply
  20. minusRusty

    Four thirds? Obviously a whole lot of people who aren’t on the rolls have snuck into the movement … Fellow travelers and Trotskyites probably – maybe a few Mensheviks.

    [irony alert]Damn![/irony alert] I knew it had to happen sometime… 🙂

    -R

    Reply
  21. George

    “A pastor can say to his flock, ‘All rise,’ and everyone rises. But try that in an atheist meeting,” said Marvin Straus, co-founder of an atheist group in Boulder, Colo. “A third of the people will rise. A third will tell you to go to hell. And a third will start arguing….That’s why it’s hard to say where we’re going as a movement.”

    OK lets be realistic here. The other third will argue that hell doesn’t exist for an athiest to go an say that. Why is there even an athiest’s meeting? or group? or will athiesim end up being just another organized belief system 😛

    Reply
  22. jornin

    To those of you who have commented and don’t know what the Freedom From Religion Foundation is, you should stop just assuming it’s just the one guy from boulder and check them out. Dan Barker’s story is really fucking cool and I think he has been passed over because his first book was self published, unlike Dawkins, Dennett, and Harris. The FFRF has been battling religious intrusions into government long before the “new atheist” movement got popular.

    Yea, I’m a member, so what. The convention in Chicago was a lot of fun and I got to meet Daniel Dennett. So there, I’m too drunk to continue this post right now. Rip me apart and I’ll respond in the morning.

    Reply
  23. LanceR, JSG

    It’s okay, jornin… you’re among friends here. Go sleep it off, and we’ll be here tomorrow.

    Reply
  24. Lukas

    Nietzsche didn’t mean what all y’all seem to think he meant when he said that “God is dead”.

    Reply
  25. DrBadger

    Being an atheist, IMHO, is hardly a reason to join any kind of group. If one wholly and strongly objects to certain aspects of church and government interconnectedness or objects to the positions a religious group wants to be made government policy or law that may be a reason for organization. Having come to the rational conclusion that there are no supernatural beings is hardly a reason for like minded folk to form organizations.

    Agreed, although changing government policy to ensure separation of church and state (something that we’re very, very far from) is an important cause. Since theists won’t be fighting for that cause, it seems natural that atheists should join together… not to support each others lack of faith, but to protect their freedom from religion.

    Reply
  26. DrBadger

    woah… how did this post from Nov. show up on the scienceblogs front page today?

    Reply

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